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HonorsHeretics
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Name: Honors
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Metro: Jackson
Interests: Theology, Philosophy, History, Reading, Writing, you name it, we have to do it.
Expertise: None - we're all dumb.
Message: message me
Member Since:
6/7/2005
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| This site needed a post. So I'm making one. I shall now comment on Pico della Mirandolla.
Ick.
Well, I'm working on Leviathan and then will probably read Kierkegaard and Darwin and someone else... havn't decided who, though.
I'm excited for school to start, and even to see all of my close friends in Honors for four hours a week.
Well, this isn't a very profound post, but I guess it will suffice.
Bye.
Nellene | | |
| On to Aquinas. with 519 pages (I'm not reading the introduction
or bibliography), we should finish this in 13 days, ending on Sunday,
July 24. A bit less stenuous than Augustine (a bit less than two
thirds as long, with bigger type).
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| ibmiller: Okay, I finished City of God at 12:30 am this morning. I
really hope I don't do this again. I should have time, I just
waste it.
Notes:
General comments:
I really wish I could spend a few years on this book. I could do
so much - linger over each section, form outlines and a large picture
of what he's saying. But I can't.
He says several times he's "avoiding prolixity." I don't believe him. 
A large theme is "men live to be happy." I agree! Christian Hedonism, in the early Chuch!
This book was written in books, and I believe each was circulated
before the next was written. I infer this from the fact that he
talks of those who have read preceding books and are responding, and
the way he seems to regard each book as a seperate entity.
Book by book analysis:
Section One: 1-10, rebutting those
who say paganism is better than Christianity
1 - Mercy shown in Christian sanctuaries vs. Killing of all in pagan temples.
He encourages believers to persevere in affliction because God is working all, even calamities, to their good.
2 - Rome fell by her moral decay, not Christianity, and the gods hastened that decay.
Augustine argues by assuming a moral standard which all adhere
to. It wouldn't work today, but it's effective in his book once
you know that's what he's doing.
3 - Rome suffered defeat before Christianity, thus Christianity is not responsible for it's downfall.
4 - God caused Rome's rule, not the gods.
Augustine has an incredible knowledge of mythology (Racheal, are you reading this), and catalogues its deficiencies.
Felicity is the highest good - yes! More Christian Hedonism.
5 - Fate is not responsible for Roman rule, Roman virtue and God's will are.
Detailed but rather complicated examination of free will and
sovereignity. Basic argument is God knows what we will do, but we
do it because we want to, and thus are responsible.
Fate is disproved largely by a long argument about twins, and how each should have the same fate but doesn't.
6 - Pagan gods don't bestow eternal life (debate with Varro). This is because they are morally bankrupt, and impotent.
7 - More debates on gods and eternal life - the gods lose again, because they are irrational and made up.
8 - Philosophers debated part one: are demons mediators between God/gods and men? No.
He likes Plato the best, though he's not an uncritical Platonist at all.
9 - More debates on good demons - not possible. Only Christ can mediate between God and men.
10 - Angels don't desire worship, because they know only God deserves it.
God is atemporal - not in time, and unchanging.
The flesh is not evil, contrary to what Platonists think, but merely
less than the spirit. Man is spirit and body, and is not whole
unless both are present. Body is thus not devalued (at least not
as much) as in Platonic philosophy.
Section Two: 11-14, the origin of the
two cities
11 - The theory of contrast - evil helps to show God's glory better.
Not dogmatic about his own interpretation, but allows that as long as
you have the right attitude of faith, you can interpret the passages
differently.
12 - Why are angels good or evil - God's choice and their own
deficiency in nature - don't desire the greatest good, but lesser goods.
Evil is corruption, not a thing in itself.
13 - Death is the punishment for Adam's sin. The saved die so
they will have faith, not receiving all benefits of salvation at once
on earth.
14 - Sin causes all our problems.
Again, the body is said to be good but corrupted, and the spirit is also corrupted. He explicitly rejects Plato here.
Section Three: 15-18, the development of the two cities
15 - History of the two cities from Genesis to the Flood.
16 - History from Noah to the Kings of Isreal.
He's a bit too optimistic about Abraham's motives, I think. But I
have lots to say about Abraham which causes my conflict here, so it's
not really his fault.
17 - The City of God's history from Kings to Christ. A lot of interest in the prophecies of Christ.
18 - The two cities: from Abram to the end.
Augustine has an interesting Old Testament Survey course here.
I'd love to go through and write down what he covers, and which books
he goes through.
He also has a nice parallel history of the pagan empires and the Bible. I wonder if it's confirmed by modern historians.
Section Four: 19-22, the ends
of the two cities
19 - The City of Man's end is to be happy in this life, but suffer the
eternal death in Hell. The City of God's end is to be happy in
God forever, the eternal life.
Men should be social - some really great stuff on friendship (see ibmiller's site).
More differences with Plato.
He understands we will still sin as Christians - unlike some, who claim he was a salvation perfectionist.
20 - The Last Judgment: he's pretty much a premillenialist, I think,
but not a dispensational one. That is, a millenium where the
saints rule, and then a period of intense persecution again, then the
final judgment. Physical resurrection is a major point.
21 - Hell: eternal fire, which causes both physical and spiritual
agony. He spends much time arguing that such a thing is possible
by listing many natural wonders.
He also argues that it is just to have eternal punishment because the
offense against and infinite God is infinite; that there will be
gradations in punishment; that universalism and inclusivism are all
heresy and unBiblical (contrary to Origin and other early fathers);
says he's open but not convinced about Purgatory. Oh, and money
won't save you from your pusnishment.
22 - Heaven: eternal peace and happiness praising God who shall fill us
as All in All. Great stuff. However, some unhelpful sexism
(women are lesser than men). At least he correctly understands
that there will be men and women in heaven, and doesn't propagate the
heresy that all will be changed into men.
Quotes I like (see ibmiller's site for one I really love on friendship):
"...if war itself is Mars, as peech is Mercury, I wish it were as true
that there were no war to be falsely called a god, as it is true that
it is not a god." Book 7, chapter 14. Good sentiments on
war - a far cry from the bloodlust of Homer's heroes, and shows how the
Christian world view had changed thinkers.
"...even the nature of the eternal fire, penal though it be to the
condemned sinners, is most assuredly worthy of praise. For what
is more beautiful than fire flaming, blazing, and shining? What
more useful than fire for warming, restoring, cooking, though nothing
is more destructing than fire burning and consuming?" Book 12,
chapter 4. For all you pyros out there. I though it was
nice to know Augustine had a good sense of beauty.
"For no sooner do we begin to live in this dying body, than we begin to
move ceaselessly towards death." Book 13, chapter 10.
Reminds me of "In my beginning is my end," T. S. Eliot, Four Quartets,
East Coker.
"Let those who think I have said too little, or those who think I have
said too much, forgive me; and let those who think I have said just
enough join me in giving thanks to God. Amen." Book 22,
chapter30. I think this is funny. Yes, I forgive you.
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| Hello, all those who haven't been commenting!
Today is registration day, and I stopped by the Honors table and talked with Dr. Bush a bit. He was happy I'd read a few of the Honors books, and we discussed Plato's Timeas a bit. He said it was "clear as mud" and "obscure," and I told him I finally knew where most of the Platonic philosphy that camu up in class is from. He also agreed with me that Jostien Gaarder's comment in Sophie's World about Plato being favorable towards women was a misreading of Plato. Plato made comments about women being reincarnations of cowardly men, and said they were universally weaker than men, thus they should have the same jobs, just do less. The only difference between men and women? One mounts, the other bears, according to The Republic. Nope, I don't think Gaarder has it right at all.
Still hard at work on City of God. | | |
| Well, I have only read part of one book of the Ethics, but we have to be moving on to Augustine. I read all there was to read of the Confessions tonight for World Lit, and I'm really looking forward to rereading City of God (though I fell asleep a lot last time through, two years ago). Remember, we start Augustine tomorrow, and should try to finish in 21 days (it's going to be a long, hard read, but stick with it, guys!), ending on Monday, July 11. And try to read and comment on Aristotle, if you can. But don't kill yourselves - trust me, health isn't worth losing to this (though I already lost it, and it wasn't even for such a noble cause).
Anyway, here's the notes I did take on Aristotle:
Ten Books:
1. the Object of Life
I dislike the concept of the hierarchy meaning that things that are "lower" are less worthy - this violates for me the concept that God's plan for every person is vital, and not just as a rung in the ladder for someone else. Aristotle seems to be aware of the complexity of life, thus denying Plato's simplistic concept of a Form of the Good for all. However, he also devalues the individual, saying that the good of the many can justify the destruction of one. For a good example of where this philosophy leads, read Ender's Game.
2. Moral Goodness
3. Moral Responsibility/2 Virtues
4. Other Moral Virtues
5. Justice
6. Intellectual Virtues
7. Continence and Incontinence/the Nature of Pleasure
8. Kinds of Friendship
9. Grounds of Friendship
10. the Pleasure of Life and Happiness
Please, if you have read farther, edit this post and add your notes. | | |
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